How To Use Meditation Without Falling Asleep: The Importance Of Intention

We stare at a foot of fresh snow and dive into a clear question: how do you use meditation or hypnosis without falling asleep? We map the difference between attention and awareness, posture and comfort, and how intention decides whether you relax or truly change.

• breath and light as reliable inductions
• how predictability helps relaxation and can invite autopilot
• sleep versus resistance and why subconscious still listens
• memory as reconstruction and using it for empowering reframes
• posture, chair angle, and small tweaks to stay alert
• headphones, speakers, and managing ambient noise
• intention driving attention for relaxation or change
• mantras versus self-hypnosis and when to use each
• story, metaphor, and post-hypnotic suggestions for lasting shifts

Chapters

• 0:00 Snowbound Banter And Setup
• 2:20 From Weather To Meditation Focus
• 3:20 Why Meditations Start With Breath And Light
• 6:50 Anticipation, Patterns, And Relaxation
• 9:50 Sleep, Subconscious, And Memory
• 15:30 Comfort Versus Alertness In Posture
• 19:50 The Chair Trick To Prevent Napping
• 24:30 Attention Versus Awareness

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:09

We are on the line. I can't believe like how often I'll forget like what that intro is. I'm here going on the line. We're on the line. We are on the line. I don't know what it gets sometimes.

SPEAKER_01: 0:31

Wait, how do we get started?

SPEAKER_00: 0:33

Right. I think it like it is subconscious. It's become subconscious, and then yeah, just don't even know. If I think about it, I I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_01: 0:44

Like a good Avaluas soon as you said it, I look out the window.

SPEAKER_00: 0:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 0:49

Everything is covered in snow. Yeah. Snow, snow, snow. I don't know how much we got yesterday. It's very, very fine snow, but everything is covered and everything looks smooth. Which means it covered up all the stirred up snow underneath it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09

And all I can think about is getting out in the driveway. All that snow in the driveway.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15

Oh my god. Yeah, it is like a big cake with icing on top. That's right. Yeah, looking out on the railings, it looks like about five inches. Maybe. I don't know centimeters.

SPEAKER_01: 1:30

You don't know centimeters? Well, that ain't five inches. That's more than that's closer to eight inches.

SPEAKER_00: 1:34

Eight inches? So how many centimeters?

SPEAKER_01: 1:36

That would probably be something like 15. A lot.

SPEAKER_00: 1:42

A lot.

SPEAKER_01: 1:43

Lots of snow. And I'm sure there'll be a nice big plow at the end of my driveway. That's one of the big things that we as Canadians are famous for. We get mad because the road isn't plowed, and then when they come and plow the road, it needs a great big pile at the end of your driveway.

SPEAKER_00: 2:01

And then we get mad at that.

SPEAKER_01: 2:03

We get mad at that. When we're really timing it well, we wait till the plow has gone by and then do the driveway. So then we just do that big pile at the time. But anyway, snow. The thing that obsesses us.

SPEAKER_00: 2:16

We also have another idea, self-hypnosis versus mantras. Um, but I think it ties into the idea that came up in the chat earlier is how not to fall asleep when listening to meditations. You know, is it better to sit upright, you know, lay down? What's the best? Yeah. And that's good because we've got tons of meditations, as you guys know, in the school. So this is a good topic here just to cover.

SPEAKER_01: 2:45

Well, what's good good to know is if you have any trouble falling asleep.

SPEAKER_00: 2:50

Yeah, you can listen to us.

SPEAKER_01: 2:53

There's there's so many, so many subtleties that everybody has for themselves as to how they they listen to these things. And there's a million answers. Let's just start with the truth of the matter is you do want to be in a quiet place, you do want to be undisturbed. Having the room dimmed in some way is not a bad thing. Unfortunately, all of those conditions are very similar to sleep.

SPEAKER_00: 3:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:23

I tend to use very similar but not the same inductions.

SPEAKER_00: 3:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:29

So if you've listened to my meditations, it always starts with a breathing thing. Because I'm always assuming that people are coming to the table full of anxiety.

SPEAKER_00: 3:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:39

I just sort of assume. And anybody who says I gotta listen to a meditation is saying that because they gotta listen to a meditation. They're feeling really compelled to do something about their state of mind. And so I always start with breathing, and I use a similar induction all the time, the use of light, imaginary light. Um, I engage the imagination quickly. And I guess on the one hand, I I use the same one to create a pattern for the mind to grab onto. And at the same time, I suppose the problem with the pattern is that it can become something you can anticipate.

SPEAKER_00: 4:23

Yes. Now that can be good or it can be, I don't want to say bad, but it can be not constructive sometimes in in hypnosis. If if the person is sitting there going, they're they're laying there going, I know what's coming next. I know what's coming next. Right. So sometimes it's good to switch it up, but I think that's where you well.

SPEAKER_01: 4:46

I think that there's value in anticipating because it takes you on a path. Um, it takes you on a path where you're shutting down the outside world and you're focusing on the inside world. And it takes you on a path because I like to use the light because I like us to reach out to our higher selves in some way or another. There's comfort in that, I believe. So, you know, anticipating that the induction is going to be the same or similar can cause people to just plain relax. I think it's also important to see your inclination to go to sleep as resistant. It's a neat little way to say to yourself, Well, I'm going to listen to this meditation and I'm going to do something good for myself. And, you know, if I fall asleep, oh well. Right. The subconscious mind might say, Yeah, I don't know that we want to deal with this. And, you know, just relax, keep relaxing. Oops, I guess you're asleep now. I don't believe that it is useless to listen to it when you sleep.

SPEAKER_00: 5:52

No, I think, you know, our subconscious mind is always listening. It's always aware. And so, you know, what's being said to you while you're asleep is, I think at some level, it does help.

SPEAKER_01: 6:06

It gets in there. The subconscious mind is receiving it. Your conscious mind is shut down. You are in a very slow brain state. But yes, your subconscious mind is aware. I mean, that's that's how you remember dreams. Right? If you can remember dreams, you were in a delta state.

SPEAKER_00: 6:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 6:28

You were way down there, and still you can remember dreams because the subconscious mind is aware. And you can ask the subconscious mind, I want to remember my dreams, and that can start to become a program. And then if you act on those memories, it's it's like any memory, right? If you say, I want to remember what I had for breakfast, there's a certain amount of practicing that has to go into that.

SPEAKER_00: 6:50

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_01: 6:51

You say, okay, toast and jam, toast and jam. And then you later in the day go, what did I have for breakfast? Toast and jam. Right, right. And then you, if you keep doing that a couple times a day for the next seven days, and I ask you, what did you have for breakfast three weeks ago? You can say toast and jam. Great confidence. Memory has to be practiced, right? They say that memory is not the memory of the thing, but the memory of the last time you remembered the thing. Isn't that interesting?

SPEAKER_00: 7:21

My brain.

SPEAKER_01: 7:22

Yeah, it's it's really interesting how memory tags on to itself. And then that's how we confabulate it, right? We remember the last time we remembered, and then we fill in the details, right? So that's how memories start to become different than the actual events, is because the brain is a confabulation tool. It will fill in the gaps, it will make stuff up that it needs to. And in many, many ways, if what it makes up is empowering, is loving, is helpful, is you know, joyful and interesting, go for it. Like, who cares? If they're your memories, if you want to embellish them, if you want to enhance them, if you want that experience to be the best day of your life, go ahead. Make it the best day of your life. Yeah. Right? Because we're we're pretty aware, you know, science is is pretty aware that memory is a not a very accurate thing. And so we don't we don't worry too much about it. Yeah, memory is interpretation. It comes from how we interpreted it.

SPEAKER_00: 8:35

Yeah. So I think, you know, whether you're sitting up or laying down to listen to the meditations, I would I would say, you know, whichever one is most comfortable for you. You know, if you're sitting up and you're fidgety and you're not feeling relaxed and your arms, you know, are are uncomfortable. You don't want the body to be uncomfortable, right? When you're taking in these meditations or hypnosis. So, you know, as as relaxed as you can get, I think is important. But I think also setting maybe the intention before you go into these meditations to stay alert, right? Alert yet relaxed.

SPEAKER_01: 9:17

I don't recommend, you know, good old-fashioned wooden kitchen chairs.

SPEAKER_00: 9:21

No.

SPEAKER_01: 9:23

At the same time, I've used them for self-hypnosis and it works really good. Um, it's really about your state of mind. You do want to be comfortable because I think you said something really important, which is if there is discomfort in the body, the mind goes there. And when the mind goes there, it makes the discomfort bigger, right? Attention enhances it and makes it more. So sitting in a chair that you find uncomfortable that causes that, you know, that little hitch in your back or your funny little hip pain or whatever, that's not that's not helpful. It doesn't mean you can't go into a deep trance sitting straight up in a kitchen chair. You absolutely can, right? So I think that I have clients, you know, that I won't let them recline the chair. Right? But I just know. I just know they're gonna fall asleep. If I let them recline the chair back to the degree that they want, they will fall asleep. And I what I'll do sometimes, it's a fun little technique, is I let them recline the chair. And then I say, Are you comfortable? And they go, Oh yeah. And I say, Okay. And then I go and I adjust the chair on them and I bring them back up. And I say, I don't want you falling asleep. And that's a suggestion enough to get them through the whole session. Just that change in the chair connected with the with the suggestion, it's better that you don't fall asleep, right? Is all it takes to get them to remain in the waking state through the whole thing. Sometimes I'll just we'll just start off and I'll say, no reclining today. You're just sitting comfortably. For many of my clients, I just they say, How far back should I go? I just say, 'til your feet are off the floor. Once your feet are off the floor, then then that's enough. And with our chairs are so cushy and and warm and you know, but just that that that embracing of the chair. And I use the I use that aspect of the chair as a deacon technique. I'm talking now, all this talking, but it's not because I want to do all the talking. It's because Hillary's gone.

SPEAKER_00: 11:45

Oh my gosh. I'm back now. Yeah, I just leave randomly.

SPEAKER_01: 11:49

Number two. That's right.

SPEAKER_00: 11:52

People know that I that dogs do that. Yes. So I'm sure they do.

SPEAKER_01: 11:59

Anyway, so back to the chair. I think that if you've got a nice recliner, that's a perfect chair for you. If you're if you're trying to get, if you know you could fall asleep and you're trying to get really relaxed, well, then you know what's going to happen. Yeah. So I don't recommend these meditations that you lie down with them. Unless we're doing like a sleep meditation.

SPEAKER_00: 12:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:25

Right. And there's there's a few of those, and there's going to be more. Yes, absolutely. Uh, there are some times when the goal is sleep, and you should get yourself ready to sleep and then listen to the meditation. So posture, chair, that's that's a good preparation. I and we haven't even started talking about the mind yet, right? The mind's preparation. We're really just talking about sort of that balance between physical comfort and physical relaxation, but not complete relaxation.

SPEAKER_00: 12:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:58

So the next thing I think you need to think about is the difference between attention and awareness. Go.

SPEAKER_00: 13:08

Okay. So uh yeah, I think I think paying attention to the words that are being said through either uh like we've got in the chat here, headphones, or not having headphones on. Having the intention, I do think intention is huge. Having the intention to have attention, I think when we drop into awareness, I'm aware that Hillary's speaking, or I'm aware that Les is talking, I think we lose attention at that at that point, and our mind can ever so gently go into Delta and possibly fall asleep. So I think setting the intention before you go into a meditation is important. I think it's important to set the intention to again have attention during the meditation and not fall asleep, right? Stay alert and awake, deeply relaxed, but also to follow it, right? So the meditations are very much a follow-along kind of idea, right? Where we're taking you to lights and beautiful places and releasing. And I think it's important to have that attention right there at the forefront. Know that when you are attentive to that and you go into your mind and you go to center, and whether you imagine it like visuals or you sense things are happening, you just know the body is going to relax. You don't even have to worry about it. If you're following along and you're in that beautiful place or releasing stuff, naturally your body is going to relax. So don't don't worry about having to relax like beforehand, or you know, we're gonna take you through those those relaxation techniques. But naturally being in that in that imaginative state, that state of follow just following along, the body's going to naturally relax. Now, are headphones better? I don't know. Yes, yes, and no. I I think it's really up to you. So some of my clients, when they use headphones, they just get stuck on the feeling of the headphones on their head. And, you know, that can be that can take your awareness and your attention away from what's going on. So, like in hypnosis, we'll we'll say to people, get as comfortable as you can. People with glasses, you know, let's take the glasses off your face. Because yeah, these things can bring our attention away from what's going on. But some people love headphones. They love headphones because it's it feels like an immersive experience. So, really, I mean, that's my opinion. But yeah, Les, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01: 16:09

There are hypnotists that even in the office, they make you wear headphones. They'll wear sort of noise-canceling headphones and they'll have a microphone that goes directly to those headphones. So some hypnotists think that having absolute all external sound cut off is part of a good experience. I do think that when you're listening to something through a speaker, that you are you you have to set volumes to compete with whatever ambient noises there are. So if the ambient noises make you comfortable, then I think that's the way to go. If the ambient noises don't make you comfortable, they they get into in the way of your focus, then I think noise canceling headphones are the way to go. When I want to have the experience of listening to uh a meditation, I did it yesterday. I use this wonderful pair of noise canceling headphones that Hillary gave me years ago. And I turn on the noise cancellation, and absolutely positively, there's like a really good chance that somewhere along the way I might fall asleep. So that's that's that's sort of the downside of that. I don't think earbuds is the way to go. Some people are very comfortable with earbuds. I'm not. I find them uncomfortable after a short period of time. So again, if if you're feeling discomfort, that's taking your attention away. You know, Hillary talked about intention, and I think that's huge. If you're listening, I think it's let's say it this way, it's totally okay to say, I want to listen to a meditation and relax. And if I fall asleep, that's great, but I don't care. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's it's a great technique to just relax. And so it's totally okay to set that intention and listen to something. If it's your intention to listen to something and have an experience, again, I don't think you should fret too much if you fall asleep. If your intention is to listen to something and make a change, I think that's when your intention to make a change should activate your attention to be more focused. When you're listening to something to just relax, and there's tons of good stuff for that out there, then it's it's about awareness. You've shifted your awareness to something other than the room. You know, you put on your headphones, you've gotten really, really comfortable. The music is beautiful, the voice is soothing, not really sure what the voice is saying, but I'm really enjoying the experience. There's nothing wrong with that. But that intention is going to make it less likely that there are that the subconscious mind is going to engage in change. So those are the I think those are really subtle and really important. Do I want to change my attitude about something? Do I want to make a shift? Do I want to experience a change? That's an intention that causes your attention to become much more focused. And I think that that's that's a significant choice that you make when you start. So you take that whole spectrum of possibilities and you say, I'm going to, my intention is to relax, get over these stresses that I'm having, and be comfortable. Well, there's noise canceling headphones and a big cozy blanket, and you tilt the chair right back, and you you close the door to the room and you tell everybody to leave you alone. And if they from the other side of the door hear snoring in a little while, that's totally okay. Because that was that was what you were doing it for, Ren. And if you're saying, I'm going to listen to this reframe meditation because I want to think differently. And then I'm going to sit in my chair, but I'm not going to fully recline. And I'm going to be focused. So I might want my headphones on. And I'm going to put my attention on the voice and follow what the voice suggests. When I do, and you'll hear the differences, you know, when we when we do meditations that are just meant to relax the body, and we do meditations that are really meant to make changes. You know, people love, you know, I hear it from people, and I've sat through them myself. And, you know, people love the experiences Hillary can take you on. They just love the colors and the lights and the places and the planets and the expansiveness. And that's just a beautiful experience. And sometimes that's all you want. Sometimes that's great. And then there's times when there's going to be, you know, post-hypnotic suggestions. So what's on the school for me when the reframes, it's filled with post-hypnotic suggestions. And I did two meditations for each reframe because I want you to have two distinct experiences of hypnosis with suggestions that guide you through a new way of thinking. We're trying to put something new in the subconscious mind, a new perspective, a new way of interpreting things. And so it's very much a hypnosis experience that's meant to have your attention and guiding you to the place where you follow. Now, I always use a metaphor. That to me is part of good reframing. And the metaphors are story-like. And it is really normal for people when they're in a relaxed state listening to a story, right? Since we were little kids. Like that was just our favorite way to fall asleep.

SPEAKER_00: 22:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:02

So it's really normal to fall asleep. But if you set the intention and you only tilt the chair a bit and you say, I want, I want to make some changes here. I think that you'll find that your subconscious mind responds. And then you can see falling asleep. I think it's in those situations it's safe to interpret it as resistance. So there's no wrong way, right? But I think it's valuable to just consider each of these aspects unto themselves as ways or techniques or methodologies that you can use to shift what you take away from it. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00: 22:46

Yeah, for sure. There was another question self-hypnosis versus mantras. My opinion on that is depending on your self-hypnosis practice, it's kind of the same. I think mantras are, I don't know the, you know, exact definition, but I believe they're along the lines of stating sort of the same few words or the same sentence to yourself over and over again. And and in a way, self-hypnosis can be the same as that, right? Like we said yes or uh last week, you know, we create these I am statements or I can or I am doing how I'm feeling when I'm doing that new thing. And I think that in and of itself can be a mantra because you are saying it quite a few times to yourself in order to make that subconscious change, right?

SPEAKER_01: 23:42

I I don't know if anybody's ever done transcendental meditation. I mean, transcendental meditation is a specific kind of meditation, and it's taught as it's taught with uh the idea of a mantra. And for some people, well, like basically the process guides you to choosing your own. And for many people, it's just a sound. And the one we all tease about, the one that we joke about is the great ohm, you know, that that deep body sound and vibration that's within us that you know, some people in their more disciplined meditations use. So I think always what I come back to is that um meditation is going into a theta state. Hypnosis is going into a theta state with a purpose. We're back to that idea that's about intention. What is your intention? What is your intention with your mantra? Are you trying to program yourself? Uh, or are you is your mantra just a way to help you get and stay within a deep theta state? You know, the mind, uh, the mind uh creates these associations so that these sounds are associated with a particular mental, physical, emotional state. And that's often the power of a mantra or a or a sound. Um, sometimes it's a phrase, and then if the phrase is is sometimes the phrase is just a peaceful, loving phrase, you know. I'm one with the universe, the universe is one with me, setting kind of a frame of mind. There's programming going on, but it's it's if you're saying that to yourself, that program has probably been largely accepted, that point of view. But then you can take that phrase that guides you into the meditative state, like a mantra, and then you can use that to shift to other programming statements, like we talked about. Like you can write your own programming statement, or you can just deal with the, you know, perspectives, ways of seeing things. Uh and your program might require shifts, you know. Uh I'm not trying to think of a reframe of I am not my mind. Or sorry, I am not my thoughts. I am the mind behind the thoughts. That's uh that's an attempt to shift a way of seeing things. That's it, it's a shift for the subconscious mind. So that's that's much more hypnosis-oriented. Yeah, I think that you know, you hit the nail on the head when you said your intention is the defining thing.

SPEAKER_00: 26:34

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that's another podcast, intention. Great. We're actually gonna wrap up early today because the outside um needs to be snowblowed.

SPEAKER_01: 26:46

Driveway has a foot of snow on it.

SPEAKER_00: 26:48

Yeah. But thank you. Thank you, thank you for joining us today. We really, we really do. We spent we spent years doing this just by ourselves, and we're really excited to have you guys with us. So thank you for being here and have a wonderful Monday. And we will see you later.