Coffee With Hilary and Les from State of Mind Hypnosis and Training Centre
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Coffee With Hilary and Les from State of Mind Hypnosis and Training Centre
Let's Talk About Money with Brian Rump: Core Scripts, Limiting Beliefs and the Strangeness of Money
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Can hypnosis unlock the potential to transform your financial mindset? We bring you an intriguing conversation with The Profit Coach, Brian Rump, a certified consulting hypnotist and money business coach, who combines his expertise from banking and hypnosis to redefine our relationship with money. Brian delves into the psychological barriers we face with money and how preconceived beliefs can hold us back from achieving a fulfilling life. Through his journey, he illustrates how hypnosis can serve as a powerful tool in reshaping these narratives, allowing us to see money as a tool rather than a measure of self-worth.
Explore the profound impact of core money scripts on our lives, from cultural teachings that lead to money avoidance to the pitfalls of equating wealth with happiness. We dissect social norms that bind earning to relentless hard work and discuss how embracing entrepreneurship and focusing on unique skills can be liberating. Reflecting on the historical evolution to hourly wages, we question the stress it imposes and highlight the value of community and collaboration in reshaping financial experiences.
Join us as we challenge the constructs of property and money, revealing their dependence on societal systems and the emotional turmoil they can cause. Through historical anecdotes and real-life stories, we question the significance of wealth in extreme scenarios and underscore the critical role of human connection. By addressing ingrained money beliefs and embracing investment in ourselves, we can work toward more meaningful and collaborative lives. Brian's insights are sure to inspire you to rethink your financial narrative and prioritize creativity and community.
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Welcome and thank you for joining us for Coffee with Hilary and Les. Brought to you by State of Mind Hypnosis and Training Center, located in the heart of the Kawartha Lakes, this is our almost daily community podcast about the mind and how you might change it in the most simple and helpful ways. Every day, we sit staring at the lake and sipping our coffee, having a chat about hypnosis and how to make those meaningful adjustments to our state of mind, because nothing is more important than your state of mind. Okay, we're on the line.
Speaker 1:We're on the line. We're in the office today. We're not out by the lake. We're in the office today because we have a guest, brian Rump. Brian Rump is here to talk about money because we think that we've got a good little trilogy in mind to talk about money, because money is one of those things that messes with us. It's filled with preconceived ideas and biases and limiting beliefs and all kinds of things. So we thought it would be good to get Brian in here. He's done some studying on this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Brian is a hypnotist, one of our graduates, and also a money business coach, and his business is called Profit Coach.
Speaker 3:Awesome, thank you for having me. I love talking about money. I think I am a money guy who has. Who's not a typical money guy? So one of the things my business name is Profit Coach, and I'm thinking of changing it because when I say the word profit, people get a little bit scared and noticing. That is kind of what brought me back into being a money guy.
Speaker 3:I worked for the bank for a long time. I was a bit of a fine print nerd. I've overcome my own challenges to understand, like financial statements, how money works and as I just keep diving into that, that world, I get more and more curious how we make decisions. I've become a certified consulting hypnotist with the help of you folks here, and that has just added a tool that I think is so critical to addressing our money stuff. I completed a program called Trauma of Money, which blew my mind in terms of like even how we look at money.
Speaker 3:Everybody has a money story. One of my core, I think ethos, is who I am in my future and my business is helping people rewrite their money story. We all have a money story for those, especially in business, want to, you know, generate wealth long term the money story that got us to where we are isn't the one that's going to get us where we need to go. So we have to take some steps to dig into that a little bit, uncover what that story is, do some rewriting, and you know my quick conclusion is hypnosis can help all of that go faster right, yeah, changing your mind yeah, yeah, it's all in our mind.
Speaker 3:Um, you know, to get super woo woo money is a made-up thing. That's not real yet we have collectively accepted it as a story for thousands of years, so it's not going away anytime soon.
Speaker 1:We even made it the rules to the game, didn't we? Yeah, right, like if I made up a game and I said you know, um, the person who wins this game is the one who's wearing a green sweatshirt. Oh, look at me, I win. Right, I see money that way.
Speaker 3:Somebody has said I want, I want to win, and the way we win is a scorecard of money yeah, and we've accepted that as a truth, and then we've got all sorts of stuff that then holds us back from really living and enjoying a fulfilled life, and that's one of the things that you want to kind of help unpack, or help people at least really understand their own version of what that is, so they can live the life that they want to live, because it's not all about money. Money is simply a tool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we put it up on a pedestal, it seems right and then we look at it and because it's in our mind, above us, we get overwhelmed and underwhelmed and scared yeah.
Speaker 1:We automatically look at somebody who appears to have a lot of money. We just automatically look at them as being kind of a better person. I used to ask that when I teach class I said does money make you better? Are better people the people with money? Does having money make you a better person? And the look on every like you guys are doing it. Right now you give me that look like. Maybe I think that I don't like the sound of that. Maybe I've fought that before, but I don't like the sound of that.
Speaker 3:yeah, see I where I go and, having um been in banking and seen a lot of bank accounts, I remember some early reality checks for me was I would have this person come in who's you know well-known around town and you think, oh, this person just has money. And I kind of been conditioned to think, oh, these people have it made and things are so easy. And then they start giving their net worth statement or telling me what they need to borrow money from, and I think this is not good. They, they don't have money. Everyone thinks they have money, but that's not necessarily true.
Speaker 3:And then you, on the other contrast, I meet people with hardly any money at all who are the kindest, most compassionate. You know, the hat one of the happiest people person I ever met never made more than minimum wage, lived in a small house. Um, him and his wife like camped a lot together and just didn't seem to want to run that race. And when I would kind of compare net worths with that person and someone who looked like they had everything, it's like guess which one actually had, you know, a better setup for themselves. And I think that's a kind of a common thread for everyone. And when we can figure what that mixes out for ourselves, it just helps solve so many other problems there was an old saying for lawyers.
Speaker 1:They always said you go to a banker and you ask a banker about lawyers, and the banker would say lawyers make a lot of money but they never have any. Unfortunately, I thought that was too true, but what I learned as a lawyer is that the average person is basically three months away from living on the street. Yeah, you cut them off for three months from an income and that's it, they're done.
Speaker 3:And that is so back. You know, when I loop back to kind of some of the core fundamentals that really make me passionate about this is as we are designed to collaborate. We need connection or we will die. Yet we all pursue money so that we can be more and more independent. You talk to so many people and their dream is well, I want to live on a homestead where I don't have to see people, right, and there's even schools of money thought where people that go all in on trying to make enough money so they don't have to see people again. Yet it's not really possible. You know we need to buy things, we need to trade. Everybody has a job to do in society.
Speaker 3:So we go back thousands of years and there's people who make food, there's people who transport the food, there's people who do other tasks, and to me, money is a way to kind of account for some of that collaboration.
Speaker 3:And there's really no quick escape route where you can just make so much money that you never have to work or collaborate again. And I also think when we are relaxed and regulated, you know our general human, higher selves want to create and we want to collaborate like I know people who their happiest thing is like they love like being a bartender at the right place, because they they like to talk to people, they like to serve, they like to work with their hands. Um, yet when they do that so much they burn out or in the wrong environment. You know it causes all this other other stress. But you know we want to collaborate and do some different jobs. Yet you know money can be that tool where if we get operating from the wrong script or story, it can really lead us away from where we really want to be what kind of things you add to a money story.
Speaker 2:Like what kind of headlines do you add to a money story? Like what kind of headlines do you fill out?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I think money story to me is so similar to hypnosis. We kind of have these suggestions we've accepted and you know your money story and kind of the part of healing starts with what is my money narrative? What is my money story? What were the things I heard as a child about money? You know what money arguments did I overhear from my parents? What advice did they give me that has now being related to, to money. There's kind of four core scripts that are um used and this is, uh, the work of clones. I forget their first names, but uh, you know there's people who avoid money. So that's the. You know, if you grew up Catholic, you know money is the root of all evil. You probably got, you know, a headline of some money avoidance in you or richer bad people yeah, people who are rich or bad people.
Speaker 3:I feel undeserving of money, I feel guilty for desiring money. I avoid thinking and talking about money. So there's a core script for that and there's many things we can hear that kind of write that into our programming and, no matter how much we try to think our way out of it or, you know, say, oh, I'll just not believe that anymore. You know, especially if we get into our own business, as soon as we start doing these things for ourselves, the script is like coming right up and like we. We have to face it. There's people who worship money. So you talked about putting money on a pedestal. Some people. To them, money is freedom and happiness and fulfillment for them is in buying things. So you know, when they have money, they're out buying things.
Speaker 3:I had a client once who grew up where it was all about money and consumption and every friday night was lobster dinner with like the extended family and just grew up with so much wealth and then that all kind of went away when they were in midlife and they had to completely, you know, readapt to how they were. They were doing things. These people can overspend. It could be workaholics where it's like money. Is this freedom and happiness? So I'm just going to work all the time?
Speaker 3:So when you talk about lawyers who have no money, some of them are the ones who are just working and spending all the time. And that was again. I think I was fortunate to see the behind the scenes of some people like that, where you know you think, oh, I need to be like that person. And then when you look at their net worth and when they're coming in to you know, do a consolidation loan and are just on this never-ending treadmill of credit card spending, and when you kind of account for it all, you think I don't want that. Like you know, they just try to work their way out of it, but not making traction.
Speaker 1:That's one of those big ideas that I fall prey to. I'm working on it now. I mean, I've come to the conclusion that one of my significant limiting beliefs is that money comes from work, money comes from work and if I'm not working I don't deserve any money, and that it is if I want money. I got to go to work and I think for a lot of people the unfortunate thing is they think working means working for somebody else. I'm lucky enough to have broken out of that one working um for yourself as a viable option. For me, it's one of those things. I believe it's what you know, I taught for years and years. I love the idea for people to embrace that there's a lot of freedom in running your own business, but yeah, for me that was a big, big idea. Was money and work are the same?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, and you have like that script if you have to go out and earn it or work for someone else or toil right.
Speaker 3:I had a coaching colleague of mine who's an nLP practitioner and I was talking about having to do the hard work of something and she was like Brian, take the word hard out of there.
Speaker 3:And this idea of, yeah, working for someone else or doing something we don't want to do is the only way to get money.
Speaker 3:So when I do some of my own work and I think about that idea of collaboration, I also follow some Adam Smith and his philosophies, and one that hits me is one of the best things we can do for society is just be really good at what we're good at and kind of not worry about everything else. So we are all born with like a unique skill set, so that looks different for someone. So if it is, you know, working for yourself in your own business, serving a certain thing, it shouldn't feel like quote-unquote hard work and maybe works the wrong way, but you know it is a way to kind of earn an exchange because you're collaborating with someone to, you know, do the thing you're good at and someone else in the community does the thing that they're good at and kind of gets traded around back and forth I've heard recently something that, um, I found interesting because when we were opening the business, we were thinking about an eight-hour workday and how much to break even and how much on top of that to pay for the business hours.
Speaker 2:And I heard something recently that kind of, in a sense, blew my mind. I guess is letting go of the how much I should make per hour, right, how much you want to make? Let go of the hours in the day, who cares?
Speaker 3:right, that's another script. So time is a whole. Maybe not a script, but it's lines in the story and it's relatively new since the industrial revolution. But even the whole concept of pay per hour exists because we tried to turn everything into factories and make clocks. These machines called clocks to like clock, everything and all of these structures, I think, just add stress to us. You know, society worked thousands of years without clocks. There would be calendars. You know there's times to do work, there's times to do other things. You know the. The option isn't sit and do nothing forever and get served. That is not what we're meant to do. We're meant to live life experience. We're meant to move, we're meant to be creative.
Speaker 3:But you have these ideas of pay per hour and some personalities really accept that suggestion and can't get out of it. Lawyers, even like they spend so much time. You ever see a bill from a lawyer that's eight pages long, of every little six minute increment they worked with you, documented. It's crazy. I used to produce those, yeah, and some people find other models and some people don't.
Speaker 3:Um, and part of uh, you know, part of the trauma of money process is actually rethinking capitalism as we see it. As to how do you want to structure things. Your business is a great example. Like it's your business? Like, yeah, you approach it as like eight hour, 40 hours a week, and how do we structure within that? But the canvas is really blank. Like you, there's a lot of freedom. You have to be able to choose what you do and how you do it and what model works for you, and part of unpacking our you know money scripts is giving us the opportunity to then decide what we want to rewrite for ourselves I find that you know what I'm listening to you two talk and I'm going immediately to the idea of worth.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right. What is your time worth? You go by the hour. I charge an hourly rate as a lawyer.
Speaker 2:It was fractions of an hour dedicated to a file.
Speaker 1:The hours accumulate, you charge per hour, you know, and that's what is that worth? But you know, I also like the wordplay. Right, the wordplay is worthy. Right, there's worth. But am I worthy? I can charge you $350 an hour for my work as a lawyer. Is it worth $350 an hour? And as a lawyer, do I think I'm worthy of that, or worthy of that and more, or worthy of much less than that? I mean, that's going to define what you decide to charge as an hourly rate.
Speaker 3:Really, that self-perception of my worth yeah, that's another money status script which, um, self-worth is net worth this idea of, yeah, what am I worth? I get frustrated because so much of like hesitate to call myself a business coach sometimes, because so many business coaches are like, well, charge what you're worth and you know, double your price and add 20 to it and it's not necessarily wrong. But yeah, it's this story and suggestion we've accepted as to our worth and it goes right to our heart of like, yeah, am I worthy of having this stuff? And I think one way through that is realizing you know, yes, I am worthy of these things. I'm worthy of being myself and worthy of identifying what my skills are and how I am able to contribute and then building a business around that value. Like there are going to be people who are worth massive amounts of money per hour because they can help deliver that service to you know, through their skill set, and it's not doesn't make them a better person or not.
Speaker 1:It could just be what the model is currently and that's probably going to change, as things have always changed throughout humanity yeah, like for me, like I think about that, that, that tension that exists between when we started this business you know, we had so many discussions. Hillary at that time had such a hard time thinking that her, her work was going to be worth even $100 an hour and that it was resistance, really to you know, am I good enough? Do I know what I'm doing? Can people afford this? Is this fair to take this much money away from people? You know, so many people live on a minimum wage mentality. They've been working at minimum wage for so long in their life that that's the program. The program is minimum wage is what people are generally worth, and to ask for more than that is to suggest that you are more than that.
Speaker 1:And then self-image kicks in and you start questioning yourself and doubting yourself, right? And then you reverse that and you say, well, what is this worth to them? Right? Like for me, one of the discussions we had was we were setting up our practice was well, what's it worth to the client? I mean, I've never had a client that didn't finish with me, that didn't say you know, my life has completely changed, right? It's just what happens when they go through these transitions and so their life is completely changed. Right, it's just. It's just what happens when they go through these transitions, and so their life is completely well. What's that worth? Right.
Speaker 3:Every minute for the rest of your life is going to be different as a result of skills I have yeah, yeah, and I think it's uh, um, it's fun to think about because part of it is the price has to be something that people say yes to, right, and it's hard to say yes when you don't know what it feels like to be on the other side.
Speaker 3:And it is about. You know, we get so caught up in yeah, these hourly rates and what we compare things to up in, yeah, these hourly rates and what we compare things to. And I'll give you another. A similar example is I have a friend right now who is a chef, who worked in michelin star restaurants, and he has a coaching program that teaches you how to make a michelin star level meal for your friends and family at home. And I've never eaten in a michin star restaurant I don't know if you have, but I've told it costs two people going out, probably almost $2,000 American, like for some of these best restaurants. Um, that the type of places he worked at that he's trying to teach you. Um, so his program is $2,000 to teach you, and so his program is two thousand dollars to teach you these things. And some people are like, well, that's crazy, it's expensive, I can't afford that, and it's so. Then you think, well, if you then don't go out to one and make it at home instead, you've just broken even on the price.
Speaker 3:The people who are his targets are a lot of executives, people who went to Harvard, people who probably spend $50,000 a year on golf. They probably bought a $150,000 kitchen so they could have their dream chef's kitchen. They probably spent a fortune on knives and pots and the cookware, yet all of a sudden the training to get the skill which culinary school is 50,000. But I could learn the things I need to be able to do.
Speaker 3:This thing is two, and you know just so much to unpack there of even how we compare things and it's similar to hypnosis. Great example someone comes and quits smoking. Well, what's the present value of not buying cigarettes every day for the rest of your life? Right, like that's a crazy investment. So in a lot of ways I think to talk about hypnosis, no price high enough is really going to reflect the actual value if it's experienced, and that's maybe a reason to not tie the price to that as much. It has to be really designed around what your capacity is and what your lifestyle is. And then finding the clients who fit into what you want to do with that and will kind of pay the price that you you know need to charge to.
Speaker 1:You know kind of create your life well, and then and then you get the clients that don't think they're worthy. Right like here. I'm going to enter into a program. It's going to cost me hundreds of dollars, but my goal is to dramatically change how I'm living. Um, but geez, you know I can't. I can't spend that kind of money on myself, all that money in one place on myself.
Speaker 3:You know, their personal worth starts to kick in and their willingness to spend the money yeah, and I think that for money scripts as well, there's kind of two that show up and what we haven't mentioned yet is like moneyance, which is money should be saved Handouts are bad and I don't buy anything on credit Anxiety over money, which is often people who don't spend anything on themselves, and then the avoidance people don't spend anything on themselves either, yet what they really need is to make this investment in themselves. So we almost need to, like, do some hypnosis work to overcome the money stuff. So we understand that, yeah, I am worthy of that investment and I am worthy of, you know, tackling these things to be able to, you know, solve the, the problems, the everyday problems that I have, that I want to solve the stories we tell ourselves right yeah, it's all about story, like I fundamentally believe that you know, our minds, bodies were.
Speaker 3:We're hardwired for stories and we just tell ourselves stories. We accept stories from others and not all of them are helpful, or they're helpful to get us to a certain point and keep us alive so long, but then they don't become helpful anymore. It's hard to see money outside of a story. Yeah, and that's kind of what's cool. I learned like when I signed up for Trauma of Money. My original intent was, oh, I'll be able to take this and learn it and help others, and what I didn't realize was it was exactly what I needed at the time for me and it was like really almost rough to go through. But almost all of our experiences money is right there, it's like sitting in the corner and it's just in every story like just one of these sticky things that's kind of part of yeah, looming everywhere in every story. It's maybe the greatest story we've ever. Maybe it's the only story we've collectively all accepted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is kind of fun, fun to think about really hard to see our, especially our, western world, because that's what I know very, very well.
Speaker 3:You know, it's really hard to see our western world as not completely defined by money yeah, it's wild when you think of it and that shifts little bits and pieces, um, but we accept that and I even think about. You know, not to talk specific politics, but every political party at every election are always going to talk about getting the economy going again. Right, and no one knows what that means and no one knows if it hasn't been going. But it's all for you know, this economy and exchange and it just dominates everything we think about and I'm amazed at how many people will unknowingly want to sacrifice things for themselves, thinking it's for the greater good of the quote-unquote economy yeah, the economy.
Speaker 1:Like what the heck does that term really mean? Right, we're just observing money changing hands.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just the.
Speaker 1:It's just a measurement of commerce, yeah. We call it the economy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the production, consumption and transfer of wealth.
Speaker 1:I think about. It's funny. What comes to my mind comes to my mind is the old Beatles song I Me Mine. The Beatles had this, as the story goes. You can watch this on the documentary. Funny. What comes to my mind comes to my mind is the old Beatles song I mean mine, the. The Beatles had this as the story goes. You can watch this on the documentary. That's on Disney now. No promotion for Disney, but the Beatles were recording albums and what had come down to was that every album was going to have this one Ringo song, two George Harrison songs and six Lennon McCartney songs, and they would write the songs together but they would have this allocation of who gets what and then how much space they go on the album, sort of the I me, mine, um, and they wrote a whole. George harrison wrote a song about it which just came to mind um, yeah, property. What would the world look like if there was no such thing as property?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a really good question. What do you think?
Speaker 2:Hillary, well, I suppose I need the definition of property.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the neat thing I used to yeah, I taught law and I taught law. I taught law and I'd say, define property, and people would say things and I'd say, well, no, sometimes it's an idea, not a thing. And people would say I'd say, define property, and they'd say, well, something that's mine. And I'm saying, well, that's just circular, it's mine, because it's mine, because it's mine, that doesn't explain it, right? Um, and we would go around and around, like sometimes I'd just enjoy watching the discussion last 20 minutes with a complete inability to define what property was, and then I keep it from you. Right, that's how I create value.
Speaker 1:I wrote a song and you can't listen to it unless you pay me, unless you pay me. I made a cake. You can't taste it unless you pay me. I made a coat and you can't wear it unless you pay me. And in fact, if you pay me, I'll let the coat be yours and then you won't let other people wear it unless they pay you, and cars and everything is like that. So property is a concept, it's not a thing, and it's a thing, that's. It's a concept that says I can take that back, I can demand that it's mine and that nobody else can have it, and that's how we make money. We make money because we have stuff that nobody else can have unless they pay. It's the core of business. So it's yeah. To me, the magic is realizing. It's a concept, it's not a thing, and the concept is one that relies on the legal system to enforce it. Without the legal system, you don't really have property, unless you had a gun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what's a? What I like about that is it is adjacent to money, right Like. Money's not real unless somebody else, like when I was in the US last week and I had my Canadian bills in my pocket, they weren't really worth anything to somebody in that moment.
Speaker 3:But if I had the green colored ones I could have a lot more ability to use that at the moment. Ability to use that at the moment and with property, um, you know, money is the way to kind of exchange, that it's kind of like the laws to enforce it. Yet I'm not stealing your shirt right now because the law right, it's like these human collaborations and, and you know, when you go way back before, there was some of these laws. It was, you know, community property and people you know used and took what they need, and just the concept of you know, we see that where we live right now, you know, go back a couple hundred years and the concept that somebody could own land was laughable. Like you didn't own it, it was like the community ran it, it wasn't yours, it was the creator's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been here for 6 billion years. You're going to be here for 60 years maybe. How can you own it? It owns you.
Speaker 3:Yet the you know, quote unquote economy is founded on, you know, one of the key concepts is establishing property rights so that you can kind of trade it and then people pay, play these like little rent-seeking games of like who can imagination trade all these products back and forth?
Speaker 3:Yet if we look closely at it it's mostly unnecessary. And then I think where could that creativity be put to better use if we weren't trading those things around? And all of this can cause, just you know, our minds to go and then stress and stress responses and I think to kind of bring a bow back to our money stories, like people lose so much energy, time, thought, emotion, just thinking about money and what could happen. And you know sometimes, if you just accept that, hey, I'm three months away from being on the street and I'm never going to be further than that away. So that's just a reminder to kind of enjoy life and focus and like create what you want and know that that time and things will probably work itself out I think too, we've tied money to our survival, our basic, basic emotions yeah right, if we don't have money, then we die.
Speaker 2:basically, that's the perception, isn't it?
Speaker 3:And it connects this to you know we're using money as that currency of connection and I remember thinking about just the Christian idea of tithing and I remember thinking, well, if money is not real like maybe it's an idea of, like you know real, like maybe it's an idea of like you know one in ten of your like trust and energy to the community, knowing that we have to work together, so yeah, we've tied money to survival, because that's our currency really, like we have to tie connection to survival because we're not going to survive without that human connection.
Speaker 3:And to me there's been a lot of mental freedom and just kind of understanding that or knowing that you know, even money's money could go away, like things could change. You might think you're rich today but that doesn't mean anything if the apocalypse happens, because, yeah, the money system could go away and then you still got to work with your neighbor next door to grow some food. That's right. And yeah, we've tied it to this big idea of survival. I'm thinking of the you know interwar germany and the inflation that happened and you'd have, you know, families who their entire life savings. They actually converted it to stamps and the bank sent you. You know, here's your life savings and you know a few postage stamps. It's like that's all it's worth now and yeah, so we can't put all of our trusted status in this thing. That could go away or change.
Speaker 1:I don't know that it makes me feel any more confident. On the one hand, I think it's insightful to look at money and say, hey, it's just a system. It's a system that was created by people to deal in a concept that was created by people that is really built to try to. Um, originally you thought it was there to facilitate the exchange of worth, the exchange of value. You know, right now I don't need any apples, you make apples, but you need um. You know a new wagon wheel and I make wagon wheels, and so, um, I don't need any apples, you make apples, but you need um. You know a new wagon wheel and I make wagon wheels, and so, um, I don't need apples, but here's a wagon wheel. I want you to go over to Hillary and get you know she's got eggs, I could use some eggs and maybe she could use some apples, and then you take the apples to Hillary and Hillary would give you the eggs, and then you'd bring the eggs to me, and then we all got what we wanted and everything was good, right, because you needed apples or whatever. So I think of it as the system that helps facilitate the exchange of value. But it is all so incredibly concocted, right. And when you are in a community, when you are a community, right like it's. Imagine that scenario when we live in a little village and you know when you need a new wagon wheel, I'm the guy you come to, of course, right, because I'm the guy who makes wagon wheels. And when I need apples and we all need apples and maybe some cider and you know a little bit of mead and stuff you know we want pies, we want booze, we want all this stuff, we come and see you. And when we want eggs or we want chickens, you know down the road there's Hillary, and we just take care of each other because we don't see it so much as a scorecard as we see it as a cooperative way of survival.
Speaker 1:And then money becomes an end in itself. And then what makes it hard is that some people hoard it. Some people get a lot of it. Some people are really good at asking for it and getting it. Some people are really unafraid of it. Some people really feel deserving of it and worthy of it and worthy of amassing large amounts of it and demanding large amounts of it, and worthy of amassing large amounts of it and demanding large amounts of it. And all of a sudden it's gone from a way that we actually care for each other to be a way that we literally take advantage of each other.
Speaker 1:Right, because in the marketplace you buy low, you sell high, right? Can I trick somebody into thinking? I'll give an example. I knew a guy. He dealt in coins. He was a coin dealer, and he'd say to me, without any hesitation, I make all my money when I buy, because if I can buy for a low price, I know what it's really worth. If I can buy for a low price, then I'm going to sell at a high price and that's where I make my money. And it just makes me uncomfortable, right, it makes me uncomfortable at the idea that my success is tricking you into thinking that what you have isn't worth what it's worth.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and where my mind goes, I wonder what that guy's doing now and how well that worked out. There's a great concept which is there's no economic profit in the long run and the market has a way to kind of balance itself out. And if we link that to just the human experience, I think, yeah, in the long run we all get kind of forced back to collaborating with each other and being reasonable. And then the other cool part about this in the mind is we've collectively gone through all these iterations of things that happen with our mind that we can probably change it to whatever we want to do in the future yeah, I think that's huge.
Speaker 1:You know, I think for a lot of people that that's a startling shift on um limiting beliefs. Right, anything that has been created can be recreated. Yeah, anything, it just takes an open mind to it. And it's really our fixed ideas about money. Yeah, like money, there's nothing good or bad about it. Inherently it's it's meaningless it's a tool.
Speaker 3:It's a way to trade your wagon wheel for eggs when someone that needs the wheel only has apples. Right, like that's really what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Yet we have all these thoughts and beliefs about it and the people who have it we have strong thoughts about them. And the people who don't have it we have strong thoughts about them.
Speaker 3:And then we have strong thoughts about ourselves, based on the situation we find ourselves in, and almost everyone has the strong thoughts, thoughts about ourselves based on the situation we find ourselves in, and almost everyone has the strong thoughts.
Speaker 3:So even the people who have the money usually have one of these scripts that makes them feel like they don't have enough money, and that's just another layer that I think endlessly is, uh, interesting, but it's also the reason, you know, to kind of do some of this work and understand your own narrative and maybe dull the sharpening of it. So, you know, I was recently speaking to someone who I would call mega rich, and that person had a health incident that was telling me about. All of their thoughts were about money and their family and how they didn't leave enough yet there was more than you know they could possibly spend. Right, it was more about the multiple generations down the road, and so, even though we might look at these, you know people like everyone still has, like, has it made and easy, and of course, you should be relaxed now they still have a money story that's like linked to their survival, just quickly summarize those stories again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so quickly there's kind of four scripts and I think having these scripts, especially when we talk about businesses, sometimes it's what gets you to a certain point. But I think everyone's going to have a mix of some of them and you know, kind of looking at them and dealing with them is going to be helpful. But they are money avoidance. To people who avoid it, money equals greed and corruption. We have money worship where money is freedom and happiness and we buy lots. We are risky, we're workaholics. Money status is our net worth, is our self-worth prone to, you know, gambling big risks lies about money, overspending, unhappy, anxious, and money vigilance is, you know people. Money should be saved. Handouts are bad. They don't buy on credit. Anxiety over money, probably sitting on a huge pile of it, but never feel like they're enough. You know, in business they also may never pay someone else to do things they could do. So all of them have, you know, ways they help, but a lot of ways that hold us back from kind of living our true selves.
Speaker 2:I'm getting into this in the next one tomorrow. But can you be poor and still worship money?
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, I think, definitely. I think sometimes that could keep people poor. You get people who earn a bit of money and then spend it all, and then they don't have any and then they can't get ahead of themselves, and every time money comes in, you know, um, instead of maybe looking after your future, you kind of live in that presence and buy, buy something from it. So yeah, just checking our time here and wrapping a bow on this, I've got a few stories that kind of we could save for next time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sounds good, cool All right.
Speaker 1:Well, I hope this is provocative to people Because I think this is just such an issue for most of us and I know it is for me. I know I have tons of limiting beliefs around money. I know that I'm constantly battling myself as to my own worth and how I should spend my time and what I should offer to the marketplace. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's. I don't like the word. I was going to say an epidemic. I think that it's everywhere. I think it's hard to live in this world and not have issues with money, mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:And it's why I think it's a great gateway into the great work we do in hypnosis, because you know part of when we, when we tackle our money stuff, we're really tackling all of the things that are going to help us everywhere and it helps us realize we all have money stuff. Not everyone recognizes some of their other things, but they recognize the money. Yeah, if you're listening to this, thinking, oh, I don't have any of those scripts and I feel perfectly balanced and I have enough money and I get to do what I love every day, I'd be surprised if you're listening to this and I want to talk to you.
Speaker 3:Tell me what that's like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, all right. Well, see you later.
Speaker 1:We hope you enjoyed today's podcast and that maybe it helped even a little. If you have any questions, we would love you to send them along in an email to info at psalmhypnosiscom. Thank you for being part of the State of Mind community. For more information about hypnosis and the various online or in-person services we provide, please visit our website, wwwpsalmhypnosiscom. The link is in the notes below. While you're there, why don't you book a free one-hour journey, meeting with Hillary or Les, to learn more about what hypnosis is and how you might use it to make your life what you want it to be? Bye for now.
Speaker 2:Talk to you tomorrow, thank you.
