Coffee With Hilary and Les from State of Mind Hypnosis and Training Centre
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Coffee With Hilary and Les from State of Mind Hypnosis and Training Centre
The Transformative Power of Critical Thinking: Enhancing Relationships and Emotional Resilience
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Can critical thinking save your relationships? Join Hilary and Les as they unravel the surprising ways critical thinking shapes our interactions and mental health. In this eye-opening episode of "Coffee with Hilary and Les," Hilary recounts her initial skepticism about critical thinking, often mistaking it for judgmental behavior, while Les shares insights from his teaching days at Trent University, where the Socratic method illuminated the path to deeper understanding and meaningful dialogue.
We delve into the powerful influence of authority figures on our subconscious beliefs, discussing how parents, teachers, and even doctors shape our worldviews. By reassessing these ingrained notions, we can better navigate the complexities of our social fabric, especially in times of heightened societal division. Hilary and Les emphasize that critical thinking is not a tool for asserting superiority but a personal shield against misinformation and manipulation.
Finally, we explore the turbulent waters of opinions and their emotional undercurrents. By distinguishing facts from opinions and managing our own judgments, we can foster more respectful and calm interactions. This episode advocates for a mindful approach to conversations, encouraging listeners to treat opinions as evolving perspectives rather than immutable truths. Tune in to discover how critical thinking can enhance your intellectual and emotional resilience, paving the way for personal growth and deeper understanding.
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Welcome and thank you for joining us for Coffee with Hilary and Les. Brought to you by the State of Mind Hypnosis and Training Center located in the heart of the Kawartha Lakes. This is our almost daily community podcast about the mind and how we all might change it in the most simple and helpful ways. Every day we sit staring at the lake and sipping our coffee, chatting about hypnosis and how to make those meaningful adjustments to our state of mind, Because nothing's more important than your state of mind, because nothing's more important than your state of mind and the Sun has burned away.
Speaker 2:The fog was foggy, we couldn't see past the dock, and now we can see right across, and, and the sun is shining in my face. Life is good.
Speaker 1:Face is glowing.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like you know, clearing away the fog of life as a segue into our topic. Yes, the last time we did a podcast, we talked a little bit about critical thinking. We just sort of touched on it. We said we should do something. Hillary said I think we should do something on critical thinking. Yes, and she's been suffering resistance ever since.
Speaker 1:I think you know, and I said this yesterday and the day before, I think my resistance with it is I hear about it a lot, but how do I put this? It hasn't been said to me in positive ways, right? So I always think that critical thinking is judgy people, right? So it hasn't been like a nice thing in my life.
Speaker 2:They probably were being judgy yeah, and I don't.
Speaker 1:I. So I associated critical thinkers with judgy people, and that's not saying that I'm not a critical thinker at times, um, but um, you know, I've had people say, like you know, I live in a bubble. I think I mentioned that last time.
Speaker 2:I think that might be a good place to start. You know, it's very easy for some people to see flaws in ideas flaws in ideas.
Speaker 2:Flaws in logic, because some people are well let's. I think it's very topic specific. I think people who are interested in certain topics can be really hyper focused on precision and accuracy in the way people think, and so if it's something that you really know a lot about, you know you're going to quickly correct other people, and I think that's really where the problem kicks in. You know, it was said to me a long time ago and it's it's a huge idea, I think, for all of us. Would you rather be right or be happy?
Speaker 2:mm-hmm would you rather be right or be happy?
Speaker 1:and I've turned that into.
Speaker 2:You know the only thing right gets you is alone. And it's really kind of true that if you're focused on being the one who's right, you want to win arguments. You're not really paying attention to the dynamic between you and the other person and what that's doing to your relationship. And I think you know um, critical thinking can be a tool that some people use against others in their pursuit of being right yeah, I think about the last four years.
Speaker 1:Right, how we see so many people having fallen into this and just being alone because they they can't converse with other people very well because everybody wants to be right and there ends up being clashing well, everything becomes an argument, doesn't it? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's the unfortunate thing and you know I'm raising my hand here, I'm guilty of this I'm one of those people that has certainly enjoyed that momentary, fleeting experience of superiority that suddenly results in loneliness. Yeah Right, it's interesting how people are quick to react to others' mistaken understandings. I think that there's a program under there that we acquire honestly really from our parents probably Usually our parents, sometimes a teacher. You know, when I was teaching at Trent, one of the things students said to me because I guess maybe I had grown in this, I had started to see things differently and act differently.
Speaker 2:But you know, I got complimented by a student that they're used to professors that are always trying to prove how smart they are, and they were.
Speaker 2:They were happy that I was really more focused on their learning than I was at looking smart, and I think that that's when I really fell deeply into the Socratic method. I don't think you can understand what you do know unless you know you're given the opportunity to consider it and express it, and so I really like the idea of asking a question and spending time on that question and then bringing those thoughts together into the learning, and I find that to be really useful way to do things. You know, I I certainly can relate to having experiences of other people taking their knowledge and using it on me as an attempt to really just exercise their superiority, and so I can understand why a student stepping into a classroom in a college or university, or even had kids in grade school and really feel like the person that's been empowered to instruct them is really just a little bit caught up in their ego at the moment. I'm not sure where this is going because we were.
Speaker 2:we were talking about critical thinking, but I think it's it's an important aside for us to maybe keep that in mind as we proceed to talk about these ideas that the purpose is not in in look how I can use my mind. Its purpose is in how might we all use our minds more effectively for ourselves, how might we use our minds in a way to protect ourselves from those who would attack us, from those who would attack us, those who would manipulate us, those who would really attempt to control us? I guess that's why I love critical thinking is because I really see this constant flow of information that really is keeping us in line and keeping us under control and keeping us doing the same thing we did yesterday.
Speaker 2:And doing things in a way that doesn't cause other people fear or concern You're making that, considering face, I guess I wonder about the in-line statement.
Speaker 1:Are you saying that critical thinking keeps us in line?
Speaker 2:No, I think critical thinking allows us to choose what line we want to be in.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Critical thinking allows us to ask the question why is this person saying this to me, right? Why is this the dominant message that's in the news today? Why are politicians saying these kinds of things? Why are medical doctors doing these kinds of things? I believe that critical thinking has to have an element of skepticism in it. It starts with a? Well, you know what does this mean to me, and is this truthful? Is this accurate? Well, let's consider. You know, one of the things that's been going on for the last few days is that, apparently, people are eating dogs and cats because people in authority are making qualitative, broad-sweeping statements, trying to influence people so they can get what they want, which is elected, and how do people protect themselves from that? Like you can laugh off that, which appears to be obvious and, you know, appears then to be ridiculous but I think a lot of people smarter than the rest of us.
Speaker 2:No, no, I don't think a critical thinker is smarter.
Speaker 1:I think that it requires a certain capacity for cognition. You do need to think, but I think it's a critical thinker or a non-critical thinker.
Speaker 2:It's a tool that they use or don't use, and I believe it's a tool that we all use in varying degrees for certain things. That's the critical factor. We talk about a mind model, right model. The mind does a conscious mind and a subconscious mind and an unconscious mind, and it has a critical factor which is almost like a sentinel between your conscious mind and your unconscious mind. Your conscious mind is out there, perceiving and receiving information, and receiving other people's behaviors and words and interpreting that, and the conscious mind is is there to say you know, I'm not letting just anything into my subconscious mind. The critical factor is saying that when new ideas come my way, I have to see how they fit into my otherwise existing understanding of everything.
Speaker 2:And the critical factor doesn't let things flow through quickly except under certain conditions, and one of those conditions is the words of authority. It's why the subconscious mind is so affected by the words of your doctor or the words of your professor, or the words of your clergy person or the words of your parents. These are authorities in your life, these are people that we just assume they know what they're talking about, and so we don't put a lot of filters on those words. We don't put a lot of screening on those words and that's really normal. It's not always helpful For me sometimes. One of the biggest shifts I see in my clients is when we just talk about the reframe that parents can be wrong, that your parents can love you to the moon and back. Your parents can have done everything they could possibly do for you. It doesn't mean that everything they do and say is right.
Speaker 2:And when people are able to accept that their parents are allowed to make mistakes, that they yeah, they probably made mistakes, yeah, they probably were wrong sometimes, then the subconscious mind can say, well, that makes sense and that makes my parents normal. There's nothing wrong with them. So I can re-examine some of the stuff I've taken on from my parents. Right, we love our parents so much. Right, we try to emulate them, even when we're not even conscious of that. We we see them. I mean, heck, before we were able to have sort of cogent thought, we were being cared for by them, we were being protected by them, we were being loved by them.
Speaker 2:It's really normal, if you're in a situation where your parents are loving you and caring for you, that you adore them and you emulate them and you mimic them and become like them. That's just really really normal. But that's one of those places where critical thinking factors in, because there's lots of people out there who didn't have that. There's lots of people out there that can't claim to have had parents that were that loving. There's lots of people out there who can't feel confident that their parents had their best interests in mind. Right, there are some people out there who are really quick to agree when I say, parents can be wrong and there are some people.
Speaker 1:Okay, this is the right way to think or this is the wrong way to think. The reason why I ask is you know? The other day I asked you know what about a person that you know believes in fairies or something right? They love their backyard, they love their forest and they just really would love the thought that fairies are in the forest right and they feel like they believe in that. Is that person not having any critical thought and we are to judge them as wrong, and why?
Speaker 2:well, first of all, I'm gonna. I have come to the conclusion that judgment in any form is wasted mental effort. Judgment serves no purpose. And if I'm going to be concerned with what you're thinking, then I'm really trying to control you. And there's no way in the world that you can control somebody and love them at the same time. Inherently, in trying to control somebody, you're saying you're wrong, you're not good enough, you're not thinking clearly, you're not being the person you should be. In trying to control others, we are moving outside our real sphere of influence. So I think critical thinking does not have to violate the integrity of others.
Speaker 1:So it's really for ourselves.
Speaker 2:Absolutely To move through the world. Don't don't. Critical thinking is a tool that you use to help you understand the world from your perspective and make sure that you don't take in falsehoods, things that aren't true. That doesn't mean that what I think is true is the truth. What it means is what I think is true has made sense to my critical mind and it fits with my other thoughts and beliefs. At the same time, critical thinking is the method you might use to start changing those beliefs, because you would start to be more logical.
Speaker 2:Logic is one of the tools of thinking that we can apply and that we find is very useful. When we're trying to engage critical thinking, logic often exposes to us our biases. Our biases are the things were predisposed to believe. That might not be true. You know, and using that authority analogy, that's, you know, we're just predisposed when the doctor says you have this disease and this disease and this is going on in your blood and this is going on in your urine and therefore we have to take this pill. Right, that's that's authority, just bypassing your own ability to think about you and your body, and you accept it because you don't have the education they have, you don't have the background they have, they're in a position of authority as a doctor, and so you think they know things that you can't know, and you essentially hand over your decision-making capacity to a quote-unquote expert.
Speaker 2:Critical thinking just allows you to use your own ability of logic, your own ability to learn and acquire information, your own ability to understand, before you accept the statements and conclusions of others. There's nothing wrong. I mean, we talk about it. We don't talk about it as much as we used to. We talk about the second opinion that if you get a diagnosis from a doctor, you should go get a second opinion. And you're going to get that second opinion because you're going to make important decisions based on that first opinion. And you're going to get that second opinion because you're going to make important decisions based on that first opinion. And so you want to make sure that somebody else with the same or better qualifications, with the same or better experience is going to come to the same opinion. And critical thinking would just tell you hey, you know, thank you for your opinion. I'm going to double check that, because this is my body and this is my life and these are my choices, not yours.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so critical thinking is really again just for the person, really, because someone could, let's say, let's say, one person is atheist and one person is religious, if, if both of them were critical thinkers.
Speaker 2:I mean, in the end there's no right or wrong, there's just judgment of the other well, there you go and let's, let's just let's put the fence there. You know, I call it a fence where. Where does my boundaries end and your boundaries begin? What's my business and what isn't my business? Right, what you want to believe is none of my business. I can come up with all kinds of reasons why, oh, your behavior is going to affect me.
Speaker 1:But it's really not.
Speaker 2:It's really not. You're allowed to believe whatever you believe. If I respect you as a being, then I'm aware that there's a boundary here and my controlling of your thoughts is going beyond the boundary. It's outside my bounds.
Speaker 1:So let's, let's take your example I think as long as it's not hurting anyone, you know what's not hurting anyone well, your beliefs aren't like hurting hurting me or you know they're not being imposed on a section of people.
Speaker 2:To me, that's where we need to engage critical thinking even more. A belief, by its definition, is something you can't prove.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:A belief, by its definition, is a kind of opinion which basically says based on everything I know right now, this is my conclusion. Unfortunately, people embrace their opinions as if they're facts and then they cling to them, and this is what I say. I've said this a lot in the past. We need to keep in mind that opinions should be temporary. An opinion inherent in saying this is my opinion is to say, based on what information I've collected so far and I haven't collected all the information I could and, more importantly, I haven't collected all the information that I might collect sometime in the future, and so I'm not going to embrace this opinion as fact. I'm not going to fight for my opinion. It's just an opinion based on incomplete knowledge. Opinions are temporary and if I approach all opinions that way, well, then I'm not trying to convince anybody.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to engage in a lot of arguments. In fact I'm going to be helpful to others, because when somebody says to me this is my opinion and sometimes they say it in a lot firmer ways than it's an opinion Often I get told that things are this way and I know, because of the nature of the question, that it's just an opinion. Like you know, the conclusion people come to to be an atheist or to be a believer of some kind, right? Um, it's just an opinion based on your experience to this point and the way you interpret that experience. Because neither can definitively, within the context of our world, prove their point. They can't prove it factually correct, right? If you can't prove it that it's factually correct, then it's an opinion. If you cling to it, it's a belief. So when people start talking about beliefs and when people start talking about opinions, now for me using what I've learned in critical thinking.
Speaker 2:I just mostly back away. I just mostly smile and nod, because, whether or not they're trying to convince me of their opinion, I know it's an opinion. And because it's an opinion, I don't have to take it on. And if I like the person, or I trust the person, or I see value in the person's opinion, I'm going to ask a simple question what do you base that on? Tell me what you know. Tell me what facts you're relying on.
Speaker 2:Now I'm using my own ability to critically listen to what they have to say. I don't have to let it in, I can listen to it. And if what they say is logical and what they say has some kind of factual basis to it, well now I just got smarter, right Now. I just learned something. Right Now I just grew a little bit.
Speaker 2:So it costs me nothing to listen to someone's opinion, as long as I'm aware that it's an opinion. It's temporary, it's based on what they know so far and they might feel very strongly about it, and that's really more a question of their self love, I think, than anything else. But I don't have to take it on, I don't have to agree with it. And when I get really good at understanding the difference between opinions and facts and I get really good at spotting the difference between conclusions and opinions and incremental facts, right, then it becomes really easy for me not to take on somebody else's opinion and allow them to have it without my judgment, without my concern, without my, because it doesn't affect me.
Speaker 2:As long as people are out there voicing opinions without the intention of trying to change each other, yeah, well, what's wrong with that? That's just good conversation, right. But when we feel like somebody's trying to change us or we feel like we need to change, those are just signs that you know, yeah, I should probably do some more research. I should probably do some more looking. I should always remember that my opinions are temporary. I don't know if this makes sense.
Speaker 1:No, it doesn't. I'm just really playing devil's advocate here. That's good, but, and I think, if that's all it is and we're just, you know, making decisions for ourselves, hopefully not hurting anybody in the process, not trying to change others, then what is the point of critical thinking?
Speaker 2:The point of critical thinking? The point of critical thinking is growth. The point of critical thinking is acquiring new important information every day that helps you get closer and closer to the answers that you're seeking and not find yourself muddled up in in falsities and mistaken logic and and confused thinking. It helps me make better choices for me me in my life if I am more open. I think that that's to me, the wonderful conclusion of good critical thinking is openness. Right people who are open to new ideas, knowing that their opinions are temporary, that their beliefs are malleable, changeable, adjustable, that you can believe in something, but it's important to believe in what it is.
Speaker 2:Like. I use the phrase it's important to trust people, but trust people to be people, right, and people act the way people act. So trust them, but trust that they can be confused, they can be ill-intended, they can be out there attempting to satisfy their needs. You know you've got to just trust people to be what they are, which is pretty self-interested, right and pretty self-focused.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if you're interacting with human beings with that understanding right, then they're much less of a threat to you mentally when we start to own our opinions and we start to attach self-worth to our opinions. If our opinions now mean something about me, then emotions are going to get involved. If your opinion means something about you in my mind, if I am using your opinions to judge you, using your opinions to judge you or using your opinions interpreting them as some attack on me then I'm going to get emotional and I'm going to react.
Speaker 2:But when I can critically realize your opinions are your opinions. They've got nothing to do with me. They're based on your experience and, quite frankly, I don't really have to care. Then you can run off with your opinion and, quite frankly, I don't really have to care. Then you can run off with your opinion and I'm pretty safe because it doesn't affect me.
Speaker 1:I think, in a perfect world without judgment which will never exist but in a perfect world without judgment, critical thinking makes sense for yourself, for your own person, um. But when we live in this world of um judgment about people that think differently than us or act differently than than me, right, um, I think. I think critical thinking is used as almost on my world.
Speaker 2:It's been used as a weapon, you know well, yeah, I think it's important to see that that dynamic right like when you say in a world without judgment, my world can be without judgment because I'm not engaging judgment but, that's the best I can do yeah. I can only control me and if I can spot judgment when it's coming at me, it creates kind of immunity for me. Right Like I see you judging me and I don't really care yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, especially if I can understand that what you're judging me about or on is really a function of the information you've accumulated and the significance it holds for you in your self-meaning right. If it means a lot to you, you're going to be very emotional. You're going to be very aggressive. If it doesn't mean a lot to you, you're going to be indifferent about it. You probably won't even talk about those kinds of opinions. But I can control my own judgment so I can live in a world without judgment, because I'm not judging. It doesn't mean I won't be judged by others, but that's again. That's trusting people to be people.
Speaker 2:That's what they're going to do yeah um, I believe that it's a really, it's really essential to see that there are aspects of my mind that are under my control and that I should use my best efforts to use them well. And I think it's this cluttered, this cluttered idea that people that they start to confuse their opinions with other opinions and they're confusing their emotions with their opinions and they're confusing their beliefs with their opinions and they're confusing facts with opinions, and that's really one of those. One of those really frustrating things is when people in authority offer opinions as if they're facts yeah it can become really confusing to the person who receives that but,
Speaker 2:these are just really, really basic ideas that will help me be calmer. They will help me be more open. Yeah, they help me be less judgmental, right, and they will give me say it this way. They give me time, they give me the opportunity.
Speaker 2:When I hear somebody, in a vehement tone, voicing their opinion, and I immediately recognize it as an opinion that they feel very strongly about, then I've given myself a few seconds to not respond, to not have my emotions triggered, to not see their opinion as having anything to do with me, even when they're screaming it at me, as having anything to do with me, even when they're screaming it at me.
Speaker 2:If I can create those couple of seconds in there where I can see it for what it is, that's when I have the opportunity to make a choice. Do I want to engage in an argument about something neither of us can prove? Would I rather show you respect and, in doing so, demand respect and calm the circumstance down and in that way, once I'm calm and I'm sending them that unspoken message that this doesn't have to be a fight unspoken message that this doesn't have to be a fight right, then we both have the opportunity to step away from judgment, to step away from passionate emotions and go back to thinking again Hmm, I didn't know that fact. Or hmm, what about this fact? Fact, and we can share knowledge and both of us grow right. Nobody ever changed their mind because somebody yelled at them yeah right and when somebody yells
Speaker 2:at you. I mean the conversation we're having started there, didn't? My experience with critical thinking is that people use it as a weapon, right, and yeah, sure, there are people out there doing that because they have strong opinions that they emotionally feel tied to, because they seem to have a lot of meaning about themselves. And if they don't voice that opinion with that kind of passion, then they're compromising themselves. And if you don't accept my opinion, then you're insulting me, and so those people might pull two or three facts out of their hat and blast them at you because you're in no position to argue against those facts. Right, and then you feel like you need to pull back and that you have somehow been made to feel like you're less than a fully integrative person, and they have exercised some momentary feeling of superiority, and three seconds later both of you are feeling really lousy about the interaction both of you are feeling really lousy about the interaction.
Speaker 2:I think critical thinking I think the point you've made is really important. You don't engage critical thinking so that you can change other people. You engage critical thinking so you can protect your mind, so that you can formulate good opinions, and it's all of those solid opinions, knowledge and awareness that lead to great choices, and that, to me, is what's essential for making choices. Sorry, why are you sorry? Well, I think you want to end this conversation.
Speaker 1:Only because we've got to go do meditation.
Speaker 2:Well, I think we could go on and on about this.
Speaker 1:Well, I think we will.
Speaker 2:Certainly, I think there's lots of things left to talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I really. I have enjoyed this more than I thought I would. Question period with Hilary Lee.
Speaker 2:You have a wonderfully perceptive mind.
Speaker 1:All right, we'll see you later. We hope you enjoyed today's podcast and that maybe it helped even a little. If you have any questions, we would love you to send them along in an email to info at psalmhypnosiscom. Thank you for being part of the State of Mind community. For more information about hypnosis and the various online or in-person services we provide, please visit our website, wwwsomhypnosiscom. The link will be in the notes below. While you are there, why don't you book a free one-hour journey, meeting with Hillary or Les, to learn more about what hypnosis is and how you might use it to make your life what you want it to be? Bye for now. Talk to you tomorrow.
